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Author Topic: 'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option  (Read 10683 times)

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« on: July 15, 2005, 04:11:38 PM »
Hi Eric,

Ok, because this request has changed a bit, I started this new thread. For historical purposes, it was created as an offshoot from this prior thread:

http://tinyurl.com/8m7bc

I added a reference to this new one in the original...

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but I *do* want to be able to append something to the 'Using URL' field for these - like my username: '[email protected]', as opposed to just 'passwordmaker.org'

OK. This request I finally understand. Now I see you've actually been asking for two different things. I can two editable fields -- URL Prefix and URL Suffix to the left side of the dialog (applicable for both the Default Account and custom accounts). Would that work?

Hmm... yes, that would work, especially as a quick fix, but I think it could be done much more effectively than just tossing in the new fields - although there is no question that the below suggestion is probably much more involved programatically, and I'm not sure it is worth it to you. I hope itis, because it would make PM much more convenient for me.

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Please try -- one more time -- to explain how you'd like the first problem solved (succinctly and concisely if possible smile.gif)

Succinct and concise? Me?  ...  <sigh>   I'll try...   ;)

I've actually refined (in my head) how I'd like this to work, so here we go...

Add four new checkboxes under 'URL Components' on the 'Defaults Options':
(as noted in another post, 'Defaults Options' should be changed to just 'Defaults', or at least 'Default Settings' or even 'Default Account Settings')

'Username' (with two-choice radio sub-option)
....(*) add '@' symbol'
(this should not affect the 'Username' that is used to auto-populate the 'Username' field for logging into the site once this functionality is working, obviously)
....( ) don't add '@' symbol
'Custom Prefix' (include textbox for default value)
'Custom Suffix' (include textbox for default value)
'Custom Prefix & Suffix' (include textboxes for default values)

default states are unchecked.

These 'Default' options could be overridden on a per 'Account' basis:

The 'Account Settings' window for an 'Account' should reflect the current 'Global' states until changes are made directly to that Account.

Lastly, I would also like to see the 'Username' field under 'Defaults' to be editable. This value would also flow through to each Account, also with the ability to disable or override it on a per 'Account' basis.

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I do not think the actual 'BaseURL' itself should ever be modifiable by hand, to give stability to the base functionality of PM. That is the main reason I didn't/don't like the idea of making the 'Using URL' field directly modifiable as you once suggested.
***

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Since these options are disabled by default, anyone not wanting or needing this functionality wouldn't ever even see the new text boxes, and I think that is important, because it does, indeed, add a level of complexity for new users of PM.
***

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The way I'm using it, the ability to just use the 'Username' field in the way described above would make me completely happy, but I also really like flexibility, which the other three options provide more than enough of.
***

Ok, that does it for the options themselves. I'll address three different aspects of usage in separate follow-ups:

1. Functionality/flow in 'auto-populate' mode,

2. Functionality/flow in 'normal' (auto-pop disabled) mode, and

3. Coordinating functionality with the planned 'auto-populate user/login name' functionality.

Thanks for listening!

Charles
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 05:39:14 PM by tanstaafl »

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2005, 05:08:27 PM »
Functionality/flow in 'auto-populate' mode with 'Store Master Password in memory' selected

This is pretty simple, but I just wanted to give a couple of examples of how this should work for clarification....

Scenario 1:
1. I have checked the 'Username' option and entered 'tanstaafl' as the default text in the 'Defaults' setttings and left the 'add '@' symbol' radio choice selected. None of the other new options are checked, and I have not overridden any 'Global' settings on this Account.
2. I go to http://forums.passwordmaker.org
3. PM calculates the password using '[email protected]' as the 'Using URL' value.

Scenario 2:
1. I have checked the 'Username' option and entered 'tanstaafl' as the default text in the 'Defaults' setttings and left the 'add '@' symbol' radio choice selected, but I have also defined 'tanstaafl_bh' as the 'Username' for this specific 'Account'.
2. I have also enabled the 'Custom Suffix' option in this particular 'Account' settings, with a default value of 'Sherlock'.
3. I go to http://forums.password.org
4. PM prompts me for the 'Custom Suffix' text, with it already containing the value of 'Sherlock'. I can either just take the default value, or make a change, and hit Enter.
5. PM calculates the password using '[email protected]' + whatever was in the 'Custom Suffix' textbox when I hit Enter as the 'Using URL' value.

If both 'Username' and 'Custom Prefix' are enabled, the 'Username' should be added first, then the Custom text.

Ok, I know these probably weren't necessary, but I like to be thorough...

Next will be a description of how it should work in standard mode (auto-populate disabled).
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 05:21:13 PM by tanstaafl »

Offline Eric H. Jung

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2005, 07:16:02 PM »
Hi Charles,
There's a lot for more to read and absorb here. It's going to have to wait until the weekend...

Thanks for all the great suggestions,
Eric

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2005, 07:38:18 PM »
I know... I just appreciate your willingness to listen, even if you don't decide to implement everything (or anything for that matter)... and you're most welcome...

One thing I wanted to point out though... from the main post:

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The way I'm using it, the ability to just use the 'Username' field in the way described above would make me completely happy, but I also really like flexibility, which the other three options provide more than enough of.
***

I don't think this will be extremely difficult, since all of the pieces are already there, so maybe you could just start with this, and then decide later if the extra fields (Custon Prefix/Suffix) are worth the effort.

Have a great weekend - and as much as I hate to say it - don't spend *all* of your time on PM!

Offline Eric H. Jung

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2005, 05:52:18 PM »
Hi Charles,

I don't understand why you want yet another username field. The current username field already gets prepended to the URL for hash generation. If I were to put this field on the left side of the tree (between Using URL and Generated Password), and make it editable, would that be acceptable?

It sounds like you're trying to address a usability issue, not a new field. I mean, version 0.5.x worked for you precisely how you liked. I haven't taken away any fields since then, only added new ones. So how can I re-work the GUI in such a way that it's easier for you to use?

-Eric

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2005, 09:17:17 PM »
Hi Eric,

Ahhh...

Ok, there is some confusion, and it's my fault.

Because this post got so long, I split it up into two: this initial response, and my proposed solution to the entire problem, which will follow directly.

OK, my confusion and resulting confusing suggestions arose due to the fact that there are two different 'modes' that we are dealing with:

mode1 = Auto-populate passwords
mode2 = Manual

I had not been specific about which mode I was talking about when commenting - and in fact I have been confusing them in my own mind.

I switch back and forth between auto-populate and manual modes frequently, and this resulted in some major confusion in my suggestions for improving the functionality, but I now see that it is a simple usability issue (mainly to do with working with PM in manual mode) - as you correctly surmised. See below...

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I don't understand why you want yet another username field.

This is why, in the previous post, I said:

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The way I'm using it, the ability to just use the 'Username' field in the way described above would make me completely happy, but I also really like flexibility, which the other three options provide more than enough of.
***

I said that because you're right - for the functionality that I really want and need (and that I had with 0.51), I *don't* need another field.

The reason I brought up a second 'username' field was not clear, and 'username' was a poor choice of labels. I actually meant a 'URL-Prefix' field (and you even sort of picked up on that when you suggested adding URL prefix and suffix fields). I said 'username' because that is what I was prefixing the URL with, but it could be anything, really, which is why I suggested it as an altogether new field.

And again - I certainly don't see this as a *necessary* enhancement, but it would add more flexibility, in the same way that adding the *password* prefix and suffix fields added more flexibility to the end-result password that is generated. Definitely back-burner it, if you even want to consider it at all.

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The current username field already gets prepended to the URL for hash generation.

??? Either I'm missing something, or this is not an obvious feature. When I am in mode2, and load a page that has an URL that that matches one of my predefined accounts, then click on the PM icon on the toolbar and select the correct account, the 'Using URL' string does *not* include the username.

When in mode1, the 'UsingURL' string is not even displayed, so there is no visual way of knowing what actual URL is being used.

For clarification, are you saying that PM *is* actually including the username in it's calculations? If so, then imho the uneditable 'UsingURL' text should reflect that - anything else is misleading. Also, the 'UsingURL' string should most definitely be displayed on the Master Password Prompt pop-up window - along with the addition of the modifiable username fiueld we have been discussing.

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If I were to put this field on the left side of the tree (between Using URL and Generated Password), and make it editable, would that be acceptable?

Yes (although I would place it *above* 'UsingURL'* (labeling it 'Using Username:') since it is being *pre-pended*), *but*, this brings to light the usability issue I have been dealing with, and the solution is provided below.

Ok, the solution to follow...

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2005, 09:39:47 PM »
Hi Eric,

I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I didn't see any other way to make my point clearly.

********** Problem Summary ***********
One of the things that has been throwing me is, when using PM in manual mode, if I click on the PM icon (or press ctrl~), PM simply opens in 'PM Accounts Settings' mode.  This is totally confusing for me, and in fact, has lead me to believe that up until now, there really *is* no 'manual mode' - and that's what I would like to see added. What I *want* to see, and what makes far more sense to me, is, when hitting ctrl~ (or clicking the toolbar icon), for PM to do the same thing that it does when it loads the current page in Auto-populate mode - either populate the fields, or display the Master Password Prompt window, but with the changes we've been discussing with respect to the URL Prefix in editable mode that would ultimately be prepended to the 'UsingURL' string.
**********End Problem Summary *********

Ok, how to fix it...

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It sounds like you're trying to address a usability issue, not a new field. I mean, version 0.5.x worked for you precisely how you liked. I haven't taken away any fields since then, only added new ones. So how can I re-work the GUI in such a way that it's easier for you to use?

You're quite right, and here's my suggestions for how to fix PM's behavior right now, although I don't know how easy these changes will be to implement.

In order for this to work intuitively, I worked out the behavior as best I can on paper. There are three parts to these changes:

1) Toolbar icon/button functionality changes,
2) One new option (and four sub-options) and a slight modification of Auto-populate behavior, and
3) Modificatiojns to 'Prompt' window, for entering Master Password and possibly editing the URL prefix field (which is auto-populated with the username by default):

1. Toolbar Icon/Button Functionality changes - multiple functions in one button

  A) When using PM in mode1 (Auto-Populate):

   1) Default (left-click) button behavior = Re-populate fields (username/password, etc) - keyboard equiv = ctrl~
Alternate functionality from menu pop-up:
   2) Choice1 = Disable Auto-populate mode
   3) Choice2 = Add Account for this URL
(opens PM Account Settings Window, with a new Account pre-populated with current URL info, ready to be completed)
   3) Choice3 = Open PM Account Settings Window (current button behavior)

  B) When using PM in mode2 (Manual):

   1) Default button behavior = auto-populate fields (keyboard equiv = ctrl~)
Alternate functionality from menu pop-up:
   2) Choice1 = Enable 'Auto-populate' mode
   3) Choice2 = Add Account for this URL
   3) Choice3 = Open PM Account Settings Window

There should also be keyboard shortcut equivalents assignable for each of these behaviors.

There are three obvious possibilities for providing access to the menu choices via mouse: right-click, long-click, and clicking on a black downward pointing triangle on right side of icon, a-la 'Get New Messages' toolbar button in Thunderbird. Any/all of them would be fine with me.

2. New Options and Modification of Auto-Populate behavior

  A) New Option: URL Components > 'Custom URL Prefix''
New sub-options for same:
     1) Pre-populate with 'contents of 'Username' field
(if what I heard you say before is true, and PM currently does use the username when calculating the password, leaving this option unchecked should result in PM *not* using the 'Username' in said calculations)
     2) Append '@' symbol (maybe this should be automatic if option b is checked?)
     3) prompt Only if no Account Defined Username exists
     4) Always prompt for Username (c & d should be mutually exclusive, no?)

The reason I need 2.A.4 functionality is for managing the domains for many users - I still may have a default username (an administrator username), and use it 70% of the time, but I also still need the option of entering a different one fairly often.

3. Modified 'Prompt' Window for populating fields

Add the following to the 'Master Password Prompt' pop-up window:

Editable text box (if 'Custom URL Prefix' option is checked), that is pre-populated with the Username field (if that option is checked).

And again, this window would only pop-up under certain conditions:

  a) if the Master Password needs to be entered, or
  B) if option 2.c is checked and condition met, or
  c) if option 2.d is checked.

Ok, that about does it...

Eric, I hope this explains my problem more clearly, and if you can tell me you can/will implement these changes, I'll donate another $100 (because I know Im asking a lot and these changes will make the combination of PM & FFox the 'killer app', at least for me)...

Thanks again for PM!

Charles

Offline Eric H. Jung

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 09:49:45 PM »
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Either I'm missing something, or this is not an obvious feature. When I am in mode2, and load a page that has an URL that that matches one of my predefined accounts, then click on the PM icon on the toolbar and select the correct account, the 'Using URL' string does *not* include the username.
I should have clarified. The username which is included in password generation is whatever value you enter in the Username field on the Account Settings dialog... not the username on the current web page.

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For clarification, are you saying that PM *is* actually including the username in it's calculations?
Sure, but not the username on the web page.... the username in the  Account Settings dialog (if you specified one). You can see that by typing text in the username field in that dialog; the generated password changes as the username field changes.

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2005, 02:11:06 PM »
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For clarification, are you saying that PM *is* actually including the username in it's calculations?

Sure, but not the username on the web page.... the username in the Account Settings dialog (if you specified one). You can see that by typing text in the username field in that dialog; the generated password changes as the username field changes.

Ok - and I did mean the Username in the Account Settings, so we're on the same page there - but this only confirms my observation:

The 'Using URL' string should *reflect* that PM is using what is typed into the 'Username' field in the Account Settings - in other words, as you type something into the 'Username' field, in addition to the password changing dynamically, the 'Using URL' string should *also* change, prepending what you are typing into the 'Username' field to the string - or do you disagree? Also, I'd like to see the '@' symbol automatically added between the Username and URL fields (if it isn't already).

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2005, 02:11:56 PM »
What do you think about my suggestions for UI changes? Am I the only one using PM in this fashion?

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2005, 03:01:40 PM »
I'm still trying to digest all of your suggestions.

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2005, 04:45:59 PM »
Oh, yeah... sorry about how long it was...  :)

Also, just to reiterate...

Everywhere I have talked about the 'Username' field, including (but not limited to) the comment about 'pre-populating' the 'Custom URL Prefix' field with the contents of the 'Username' field, I mean and meant the 'Username' field that is pre-defined in the 'Account Settings' for that URL, *not* the username field on the web page.

Also - if a page is loaded that does not have an Account matching the URL, and I had checked the  'Use Custom URL Prefix' and 'Pre-populate with 'contents of 'Username' field' options under the 'Defaults' settings, then the URL Prefix box would be empty.

This will work even more beautifully if/when you get the 'auto-populate' of the Username fields working!

I can't wait...

Once you can tell me that you understand what I'm talking about, and agree that it makes sense, and even more importantly, agree to implement it, I'll happily make another donation - and believe me, I consider it money well spent! A bargain, even, as I think I'd be getting far more than my money's worth.

Thanks again,

Charles

Offline tanstaafl

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2005, 04:34:41 PM »
Ok, this has morphed again to the point that I created a new topic:

http://forums.passwordmaker.org/index.php?showtopic=138

Charles

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'Modifiable 'Using URL'' option
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2005, 04:34:41 PM »

 

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