Author Topic: Default Account  (Read 16870 times)

Offline Romeo

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« on: August 02, 2005, 08:34:46 PM »
Eric,

I just realized that the Default Account has a text box for a username and a counter.  I am wondering why those are there.  Do we really need them on the Default Account interface ?  IMHO, this might actually confuse a potential new user, unnecessarily.  Granted, they make the password a little harder to crack, but we already have so many other options, such as the hash, the l33t, etc. to make the PW difficult to crack.

Romeo
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 09:16:18 PM »
Sigh. Those fields were originally there, then I removed them for the very reasons you describe. Then Tyrantmizar asked for them back (here).

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather not change it again.

-Eric

edit: I like your avatar! Looks like Arnold S. as Terminator on a motorcycle :)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 09:16:49 PM by Eric H. Jung »

Offline Romeo

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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2005, 09:34:40 PM »
Eric,

Actually the avatar is from easy rider.  Don't ask me who that is, though.  Even though I've seen the movie, I wouldn' be able to tell you.  It's too long ago.

As for the username and counter fields.  I must have missed that exchange.  But if you think that we ought to keep them, it doesn't make a difference to me.

It'll be hard to explain in the help manual, though.  But I'll manage.  B)

Romeo
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 09:35:07 PM by Romeo »
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2005, 10:42:40 PM »
I don't think we should keep them. I was helping out Tyrantmizar  :)

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 12:18:02 AM »
How about this? What if we name those fields something else in Defaults? Like "Extra Field1" and "Extra Field2" or something equally meaningless (albeit not as confusing as username and conter)...I'm open to ideas.

Would that make documentating it easier?

Offline Romeo

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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 01:06:10 AM »
Eric,

I am racking my brain trying to explain those two boxes.  I know that you want to keep them for compatibility reasons.  I also see how they were probably part of the evolution process, but I really do not see any reason for keeping them.

Would it be very difficult to have two dialogs and a button for a legacy version of this dialog ?  That way, users, who are new, can just keep the default of this dialog, but users who did start using PM early on and who decided to put a username or a counter into these boxes will have a chance to hit the button, or something like that.

Or even better yet, users who used these two boxes for the username or counter have those values in the RDF file, right ?  If PM sees that those values are there, put a button on the dialog to open yet another dialog to delete, or modify those values.  If it doesn't see those values, do not put that legacy button on there.

How does that sound for a solution?

Romeo    :rolleyes:
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 01:39:06 AM »
Quote
Or even better yet, users who used these two boxes for the username or counter have those values in the RDF file, right ? If PM sees that those values are there, put a button on the dialog to open yet another dialog to delete, or modify those values. If it doesn't see those values, do not put that legacy button on there.
That's a good idea. Let's sleep on it a few days; there's no hurry. In the meantime, I think you should just ignore documenting them in the Help files...i.e., pretend they don't exist for Defaults.

Offline Tyrantmizar

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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 01:58:23 AM »
If you guys want to change it back, that is fine with me.  If you recall, I was merely asking why it was disabled.  If you guys think it would make PasswordMaker more user-friendly by removing those field for defaults, be my guest.
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Offline Romeo

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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 01:59:03 AM »
Quote
Let's sleep on it a few days
Eric, that sounds like a weener.

Romeo
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Romeo

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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2005, 02:11:46 AM »
Quote
If you recall, I was merely asking why it was disabled.
Yeah Eric, why did you put it back in, eh ? :blink:
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2005, 02:22:49 AM »
Heh. I'm married to a licensed, doctorate-level psychologist. She has me reading between the lines all the time :)   So I read between-the-lines of Tyrantmizar's post too much, thinking his question was really a request to put it back. Was it not so, Mr. Tyrant?

It's no hassle to disable it again, or name them something else, or whatever... this is kids' stuff. Bring on the hard work  :)

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2005, 02:26:16 AM »
On a serious note... Tyrantmizar, does it make sense to you to have a username defined for Defaults? If so, please explain. I only disabled it because I thought it would confuse people.

Offline Tyrantmizar

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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 04:05:21 AM »
Theoretically, having the username and counter options do have a point.  If someone knew your master password and knew that you were using PasswordMaker, then they would be confronted with several variables that they would need to determine in order to create your passwords for various sites.  The username and counter is simply another one of those variables.  

As for the relative security of the cracking the password, well... the password algorithms are already virtually impossible to unravel.  If someone had your final password, and somehow figured out how to crack the algorithm(say, several years in the future when these algorithms become outdated) then they would first have to determine if someone used a username, counter, prefix,  or suffix, and, if they did use one, what it was, and what level l33t, or not... yeah.. lots of stuff.  

Removing the username and counter would make it theoretically less secure, but these passwords are top of the line, so the difference would be incredibly marginal.  You won't loose much by removing them.  Go ahead.

By the way, nice forum logo.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 04:06:28 AM by Tyrantmizar »
Tyrantmizar
- <a href="http://tyrantmizar.blogsome.com/">Check out my blog</a> (shameless plug :P)
- Lord of the Feature Requests / Enhancements Forum - BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
- Lord of the other one, the [url=http://forums.passwordmaker.o

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2005, 05:38:27 AM »
Thanks to quixin for the new logo!!!

Offline tanstaafl

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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 12:30:40 PM »
Actually, I really *like* having the ability to set a default username in the Defaults, and here's why...

I (almost) always use the same username for all of my online accounts. With a username specified in 'Defaults', I don't have to set up an actual 'account' in PM to take advantage of the auto-populate functionality when I go to a site that doesn't require anything 'special' - I simply enter the default username in the 'Defaults', and when I go to a site that isn't set up as an actual Account in PM, it just works.

If you remove this, then I'd theoretically have to create an actual Account for every site that I wanted to be able to automatically log into. That would be much *less* convenient.

My vote is to leave it in (please?)

Charles
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 02:14:51 PM by tanstaafl »

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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 12:30:40 PM »