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Author Topic: Default Profiles  (Read 24527 times)

Kevin

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Default Profiles
« on: October 16, 2007, 08:48:52 PM »
Feel free to shoot me if this is a feature that is already implemented, but I couldn't find it in the GUI or what exists of the Wiki.  I'd like to start using the PasswordMaker, but I have several groups of accounts based on what characters and minimum/maximum lengths the passwords may have.  The way I understand the program works now is that I would create a "group" to designate this property and create an individual subaccount for each (provided I wanted a different password for each).  Or, if I wanted the same password for a group, I could use my wildcards to have it apply to each.  What I can't do, however, is set up an account similar to the Default -- that is, use the URL/other component of the site in order to generate unique passwords.  Which means that I could set up a sane default, but would have to create a unique account for each site that differs from that (provided that I want unique passwords, which is one of the security features I hoped to benefit from using this program).  I don't imagine it would be hard to implement the URL-based text generation after the pattern matching, or it could even be included as an extra field or option to each pattern you set for an account.

To make matters worse, any site that uses a different username (and I have many) would need a separate account.  It would be nice to factor out some of the account-specific settings into group settings.  That way, accounts could inherit properties (say, usernames or password characteristics) in a group while changing other properties much easier than Copy -> Change.

Let me know if I'm off the mark here or not.

Thanks,

Kevin

Offline tanstaafl

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 09:21:52 PM »
Feel free to shoot me

BANG !!!!

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if this is a feature that is already implemented,

Oh, sorry - I'm a bit trigger-happy these days... ;)

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The way I understand the program works now is that I would create a "group" to designate this property and create an individual subaccount for each (provided I wanted a different password for each).

Currently, the only function of Groups is for categorizing accounts... there are no 'Group Policies', or 'Group Characteristics' or anything like that... it is just a container for accounts, for organizational purposes.

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Or, if I wanted the same password for a group, I could use my wildcards to have it apply to each.

If you had a bunch of accounts that you wanted to share the same username/password, you can simply add all of the appropriate URL patterns for each site to an account. If you wanted to be able to use different usernames, you'd need a separate account. If you wanted these to share the same password, you could add the password field/value to the other accounts using the 'Advanced Auto-Populate' functionality.

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What I can't do, however, is set up an account similar to the Default -- that is, use the URL/other component of the site in order to generate unique passwords.

I'm not sure I understand the question... The only purpose of the URL Components selected in the 'Default Settings' account is to determine what parts of the URL are used to create the 'Use the following text' field on a new account. You can always change this field to any value you like...

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Which means that I could set up a sane default, but would have to create a unique account for each site that differs from that (provided that I want unique passwords, which is one of the security features I hoped to benefit from using this program).

Again, not sure I understand. PWM generates unique passwords for each site right now, even if you use the Defaults for every site you visit.

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I don't imagine it would be hard to implement the URL-based text generation after the pattern matching, or it could even be included as an extra field or option to each pattern you set for an account.

?? More confusion - I guess I'm missing something, sorry... :(

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To make matters worse, any site that uses a different username (and I have many) would need a separate account.

This is true - but - <shameless plug> - there is a long-standing Feature Request (feel free to vote for it) to add the Username and Modifier fields to the Master Password Prompt window, which would allow you to use a single account, but with different usernames... obviously, you would have to actually type in the username AND the Master Password, until Eric figures out a way for PWM to read our minds.

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It would be nice to factor out some of the account-specific settings into group settings.  That way, accounts could inherit properties (say, usernames or password characteristics) in a group while changing other properties much easier than Copy -> Change.

I use Groups in this way - yes, it would be 'nice' if you could define 'Group' settings that any new Account created under that Group would inherit, but there is a workaround - just create a 'Template' account inside/for each Group, with the settings you want new Accounts to inherit, then just 'Copy' the appropriate Template when creating a new Account and it has those settings.

Sorry I had a bit of trouble understanding - maybe if you reword your questions/issues... or maybe someone else is less brain-damaged than I am now (been a long day)...

Offline Miquel 'Fire' Burns

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 02:23:29 AM »
I think I know what he wants.

Basically, you would define a bunch of default profiles/accounts that all you need to do is assign a URL pattern to use it instead of the normal default settings.

You got default settings you like, then you make a profile for sites that don't like special characters, then maybe another for a different username, etc.
"I'm not drunk, just sleep deprived."

Offline tanstaafl

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2007, 11:25:03 AM »
I think I know what he wants.

Basically, you would define a bunch of default profiles/accounts that all you need to do is assign a URL pattern to use it instead of the normal default settings.

You got default settings you like, then you make a profile for sites that don't like special characters, then maybe another for a different username, etc.

Yeah - basically my last comment about using 'Templates'... just my word for it...

Kevin

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 04:00:39 PM »
Right.  I think miquelfire understands.  The problem is with only being able to have one default profile.  I guess the only workaround is to copy a "template" and change the password and URL pattern for each site (but this is obviously less elegant than what I was suggesting).  The modifiable usernames would be a step in the right direction, but seeing that it's been a feature request pending for two years...

Thanks anyway.

Offline waily

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2007, 02:46:46 AM »
Create each account by using template is current solution. However, I'd like to illustrate an example.

For 50 websites, each have different chartsets for their passwords. People may simple divide two group of these passwords' requirement. One group can handle 20 chars and special chars for 30 website named 'settings A' and the other handle only 8 chars and no special chars for 20 websites named 'settings B'.

If people want to use different passwords for all 50 websites. He can do the following under current passwordmaker implementation.

1.Create a default account for 'settings A' and let this account handle all 30 websites
2.Create one by one accounts up to 20 for 'settings B' with different 'Using text'

That's it, total 21 accounts for all 50 websites with different password.
And people should be careful to type correct 'Using text' for each 20 accounts on settings B.

If these passwords break to three groups, The backup will be the most important key for these settings.

However, if the other account can have default account's urls tab and with url patterns (replace each typing 'Using text'), people can simply add all url patterns for these 20 websites and only two accounts needed for total 50 websites.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 09:34:42 AM by waily »

Offline tanstaafl

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 12:32:14 PM »
Ok, I think I see what you are actually asking for... check me...

A new Account option checkbox that if checked would:

"Use calculated TLD of matched Pattern for the 'Using Text' value for calculating passwords for this Account."

This would allow you, in your example above, to only have TWO accounts, each with the appropriate Settings, but allowing Unique Passwords per URL Pattern...

I actually really like this idea... in fact, it came up in this thread, but apparently never made it into an official FR. I even created a mock-up of a new URL Pattern manager (see attached)...

Eric? You never weighed in on this one... what do you think?

Offline Eric H. Jung

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 09:14:14 PM »
First of all: are Kevin and waily asking for the same thing or did waily hijack Kevin's thread?

But yeah, waily's idea is a good one It would minimize the number of accounts one has to create. I agree it's similar to http://forums.passwordmaker.org/index.php/topic,1344.msg1280129.html and, in fact, that thread describes it much better than this one. "Pattern-based Use the following text to calculate the generated password field" would be a good title.

Offline tanstaafl

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 02:03:01 AM »
Ooops - yep, Kevins original request had more to do with the different usernames as opposed to URLs...

Heh - I know its like that danged Kudzu that just keeps growin and growin...

But what about making that:

"Pattern-based Username AND Use the following text to calculate the generated password fields" would be a good title.

<tanstaafl ducks as Eric throws anvil at him>

Offline waily

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2007, 02:47:47 AM »
"Pattern-based Username AND Use the following text to calculate the generated password fields"
..........
Well, too complicate ...  :)

Kevins original request is also complicated, too.

How about this, original account have only 'Use the following text to calculate the generated password'.
Add more options from default account's 'URL Components'. Uses can use just select 'Domain', 'Protocol' four options with additional 'Use Pattern-based following text'. However, the 'Pattern-based' can be the next version since it might took many test cases.

My original intention is just add these options from default account to not default account because this will save the programming time and produce greater feature for passwordmaker right NOW
OK, that's my request sine I do have lots of accounts to manage ....  :)

Offline Eric H. Jung

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 03:00:13 AM »
But what about making that:

"Pattern-based Username AND Use the following text to calculate the generated password fields" would be a good title.

Why would anyone want the username dynamically calculated through patterns?? I think that anvil already hit your head :)

Quote from: waily
Add more options from default account's 'URL Components'. Uses can use just select 'Domain', 'Protocol' four options with additional 'Use Pattern-based following text'.

Meh. Adding those four checkboxes to the custom accounts (non-default account) just gives you shortcuts to manually editing the URL already in the "Use the following text to calculate the generated password" field. Is that really what you want? If you want pattern-based text, just say so. I'm not particularly interested in adding all those checkboxes just to save a little bit of typing; it doesn't add any real new feature.

Offline tanstaafl

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2007, 11:18:20 AM »
But what about making that:

"Pattern-based Username AND Use the following text to calculate the generated password fields" would be a good title.

Why would anyone want the username dynamically calculated through patterns?? I think that anvil already hit your head :)

No, actually, I remember this conversation better now... I was arguing from your current point of view, because I didn't see the advantage then... I do now.

Understand, I'm not insisting that this should be done - but it IS a very interesting idea, and honestly, I don't see how it would be a bad thing to do - and, if you have a LOT of accounts, it could result in a much smaller RDF file - but, it would take some work. How much I don't know, but I'm imagining a bit.

Anyway, lets see if I can explain it better so you can at least see the advantage, whether or not you have any interest in implementing it...

Think of it as an alternative to creating multiple accounts... you create an 'account' that has the settings that you want for certain type of accounts - say, online forums (so, don't need to be as secure, so you may just limit the character set to lowercase letters and numbers)... then you simply add a 'pattern' for each site/forum that will be using these settings... with the addition of being able to have each pattern also use a different username AND use the TLD of the matched pattern, you can have one account that will populate different usernames and will use different 'Use the following Text...' to generate the password, thereby guaranteeing unique passwords for each.

So, used in this manner, an 'Account' is more like a container for a group of shared settings, and the patterns are what are used to generate the unique password, using the settings for the 'Account' - only the username and 'Using text' would be different for each.

Did I explain that right?

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Quote from: waily
Add more options from default account's 'URL Components'. Uses can use just select 'Domain', 'Protocol' four options with additional 'Use Pattern-based following text'.

Meh. Adding those four checkboxes to the custom accounts (non-default account) just gives you shortcuts to manually editing the URL already in the "Use the following text to calculate the generated password" field. Is that really what you want? If you want pattern-based text, just say so. I'm not particularly interested in adding all those checkboxes just to save a little bit of typing; it doesn't add any real new feature.

I agree...

Offline Eric H. Jung

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2007, 04:31:52 PM »
Think of it as an alternative to creating multiple accounts... you create an 'account' that has the settings that you want for certain type of accounts - say, online forums (so, don't need to be as secure, so you may just limit the character set to lowercase letters and numbers)... then you simply add a 'pattern' for each site/forum that will be using these settings... with the addition of being able to have each pattern also use a different username AND use the TLD of the matched pattern, you can have one account that will populate different usernames and will use different 'Use the following Text...' to generate the password, thereby guaranteeing unique passwords for each.

So, used in this manner, an 'Account' is more like a container for a group of shared settings, and the patterns are what are used to generate the unique password, using the settings for the 'Account' - only the username and 'Using text' would be different for each.

I understand. You can add it as "Multiple usernames per account, specified by pattern".

Offline waily

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 03:15:40 AM »
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Quote from: waily
Add more options from default account's 'URL Components'. Uses can use just select 'Domain', 'Protocol' four options with additional 'Use Pattern-based following text'.

Meh. Adding those four checkboxes to the custom accounts (non-default account) just gives you shortcuts to manually editing the URL already in the "Use the following text to calculate the generated password" field. Is that really what you want? If you want pattern-based text, just say so. I'm not particularly interested in adding all those checkboxes just to save a little bit of typing; it doesn't add any real new feature.

I agree...

Huh ... maybe I think too much about implementation effort, but I think it will be great to just implement 'Pattern-based' feature for not default account.

Thanks for your great passwordmaker .... :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 06:48:46 AM by waily »

Offline tanstaafl

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 12:36:43 PM »
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Huh ... maybe I think too much about implementation effort, but I think it will be great to just implement 'Pattern-based' feature for not default account.

I don't understand... you can add patterns to all accounts EXCEPT the Default.

What is it exactly you are saying would be good to implement? Pattern-based 'Use the following text...' strings?

If Eric is going to add that, it only makes sense to go ahead and add the username too. Those are the only two variables I can see that would ever be wanted/needed there.

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Re: Default Profiles
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 12:36:43 PM »

 

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