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Author Topic: Mozilla Update  (Read 927380 times)

Offline Tyrantmizar

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Mozilla Update
« on: September 30, 2005, 12:04:13 AM »
The only bad reviews you've gotten over at Moz Update (here) have been from nutcases (I'm looking at you Ryan!!, though Jack wasn't very coherent)  Is there any kind of penalties for posting pratical lies like they did or are they within the limits?

Also, most of the 'bad' reviews have been for features/bugs that have been fixed!  what the heck?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2005, 12:04:26 AM by Tyrantmizar »
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Offline quixin

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Mozilla Update
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2005, 12:28:28 AM »
I actually reported those comments to see if something would be done, thus far - nothing.



Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2005, 12:31:50 AM »
Thanks for checking this out, Tyrantmizar.
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Is there any kind of penalties for posting pratical lies like they did or are they within the limits?
As far as I know, the only thing we can do is click the "Report Comment" link :(

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Also, most of the 'bad' reviews have been for features/bugs that have been fixed! what the heck?
Yeah, it would be real nice if they made it clear to which version a review applies. They do have the dates next to each review, but that's hardly adequate. The guys at UMO (that's the acronym for their old site--updates.mozilla.org, which is now addons.mozilla.org -- but is still their name for some reason) are notoriously difficult to reach. The best way to reach them is on their IRC channel.

You should also feel free to submit new reviews periodically when the extension has changed significantly since the last time you reviewed it.

Offline Romeo

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Mozilla Update
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2005, 12:40:25 AM »
As for the bad comments, I was a user of weatherfox for quite a while, but then weather.com came out with their extension, which I actually like a lot better.  You should have seen the comment section there.  The guys from weatherfox slammed this new extension, which came a bit later.

So, I wouldn't worry about the bad comments too much.  I am just sorry for the people who decide not to use PM because of these rotten comments.
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Tyrantmizar

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Mozilla Update
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2005, 01:41:35 AM »
Speaking of Moz Update, I've always been wondering about why this doesn't have the cult following and popularity of, say, Greasemonkey or Adblock.  Yes, I truly believe that PasswordMaker deserves to be in the same class as those extensions.  PM is truly an awesome extension.  Anyway, I've been thinking about it for a while, and have come up with several contributing factors:

1)Moz Update is slow.  As slow as crap is on a winter day.  They still have 0.8.1 up and you're on 0.8.7  

2)Cheap, made-in-two-seconds knockoffs.  Not to be terribly condescending to the other password hashing extensions (too late), but none of them really rival PasswordMaker.  What they do have is a space on the ever expanding Privacy and Security category of Mozilla update.  They confuse Firefox users, and they don't have a clear-cut comparison of the various password-hashing extensions out there.  

3)Complexity  I would like to note that I don't mean that PasswordMaker is bloated.  It is simply chock-full of features (and looking to get bigger and bigger as time goes on.)  Trust me.  I run the FRL.  I probably am more aware of this simple fact than anyone except Eric.  The sheer number of advanced settings, (and, frankly, the uselessness of the Basic Options) make it rather user-unfriendly.

The help files and these forums help.  A lot.  But it isn't enough.  When I go to passwordmaker.org, I'm immediately confronted with a long explanation of what PasswordMaker does.  Even though it has gotten better, it is still a bit winded.  We need to shorten it.  We need to make it less complex and more user-friendly.  

Currently PM appeals to security nuts and computer geeks.  We need to get the average Firefox/Mozilla user into the picture.  Someone who has no clue that "password" does not make a good password, or that saving it to your computer using password managers isn't as secure as it could be, is not going to understand what PM is about.  

4)Cruddy explanation on Moz Update. lets face it.  It isn't Shakespeare.  Especially on the actual page it is one big blob of text.  Yes, I know that isn't your fault.  It still sucks.

5)*@#%&! like Ryan  nuff said

6)long winded pointless angry rants on my part hehe  sry!   :angel:

PS  What is up with PixieGirl?  her site doesn't work and you've got a pointless link on your front page.

PPS  I can't promise anything, but I will try not to have these types of spontaneous angry and bitter rants again.  Again, I'm sorry.  No feelings were intended to be hurt.

PPPS ...and yet, I hope I gave you guys something to think on.  But for now, night all!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2005, 01:45:41 AM by Tyrantmizar »
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Offline Eric H. Jung

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Mozilla Update
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2005, 02:06:40 AM »
Wow. Lots of comments will follow after I stew on this. Most excellent suggestions. Thank you. Come back soon.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2005, 02:06:52 AM by Eric H. Jung »

Offline tanstaafl

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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2005, 11:45:20 AM »
Tyrant on a tirade! Well, at least yours contains lots of useful information and suggestions... ;)

Seriously, I agree with everything... but would like to make clear that it is the *feature-set* of PM that is the only reason I - and the others I have turned on to it - *choose* it. PM just rocks, and is just gonna rock harder as time goes on. I do think Eric will find ways of making the 'Advanced' settings more intuitive as time goes on, but I'm fine with the way they are now for the most part, and certainly do *not* want to see PM 'dumbed down'.

We have a great group here helping Eric answer questions from new people, and even to a certain extent, helping him decide which features make the most sense to implement, act as a sounding board for their implementation, and to help work out the occasional bugs (few, and always fixed incredibly quickly).

So, the best thing we can do is visit addons.mozilla.org and the other update sites and add our comments - especially whenever Ryan or one of the other clueless abuses their keyboard...

Charles

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2005, 10:09:01 PM »
Hi,

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Moz Update is slow. As slow as crap is on a winter day. They still have 0.8.1 up and you're on 0.8.7
That's very true, but in this case not entirely their fault. I've been lax in submitting every update to them. I submitted the most recent one to them (0.8.7?) but nothing before that since 0.8.1. But in any case, even after I submit an update, it takes them 2-3 weeks before they approve (or reject) it. They work strictly on a volunteer basis, and if you want to become a volunteer it's quite easy. By doing this, you can review any extension submittals you want--as many or as few as you have time for. In fact, if you want to review only PasswordMaker updates, you could do that. By "review", I mean the person who tests the extension to make sure it's not buggy, does what it says, etc. After a reviewer approves it, the update gets posted on UMO. Let me know if you want instructions on how to become a reviewer.

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Cheap, made-in-two-seconds knockoffs. Not to be terribly condescending to the other password hashing extensions (too late), but none of them really rival PasswordMaker. What they do have is a space on the ever expanding Privacy and Security category of Mozilla update. They confuse Firefox users, and they don't have a clear-cut comparison of the various password-hashing extensions out there.
.
Agreed. Not sure what to do about that except keep on promoting PasswordMaker everywhere we can...

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When I go to passwordmaker.org, I'm immediately confronted with a long explanation of what PasswordMaker does. Even though it has gotten better, it is still a bit winded. We need to shorten it. We need to make it less complex and more user-friendly.
Definitely agree there. I wrote that text back in January or so and it has changed very little since then. Would you please take a stab at writing the new home page? Detailed explanations can go on other pages or be hidden unless the users opens a link (just like clicking on some of the links in the navigation bar on the right of the website open/close more links)


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Currently PM appeals to security nuts and computer geeks. We need to get the average Firefox/Mozilla user into the picture. Someone who has no clue that "password" does not make a good password, or that saving it to your computer using password managers isn't as secure as it could be, is not going to understand what PM is about.
I know. I know! But how? Making it simpler will help. Making the web site easier to understand will help. But I need help with that. You see what I've created and I don't know how to make it simpler. HELP ME!!!

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Cruddy explanation on Moz Update. lets face it. It isn't Shakespeare. Especially on the  actual page it is one big blob of text. Yes, I know that isn't your fault. It still sucks.
Once again, I could use your help here. How should it read? How should I fix it (besides the formatting issues). I could give you access to the account if you would like to play with it yourself.

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*@#%&! like Ryan nuff said
This will always happen and I don't think you need worry about it because the word can still get out.

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PS What is up with PixieGirl? her site doesn't work and you've got a pointless link on your front page.
Thanks for pointing this out to me. I didn't even know, and she didn't even tell me.

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No feelings were intended to be hurt.
None hurt here. Thank you very much for the constructive criticism. This is precisely what PasswordMaker needs. I'd just like MORE input from you now. Can you help me write/re-write things?

Eric

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2005, 12:38:04 AM »
By the way, I think having an IE extension will also attract a lot more people. I'm working on it now.

Offline Romeo

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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2005, 12:50:41 AM »
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By the way, I think having an IE extension will also attract a lot more people. I'm working on it now.
Eric, you are correct here.  If Kim Commando were to  recommend PM on her show, or on her web site, there could potentially be thousands of new users.
It is impossible to create a fool-proof system, because fools are ingenious.

Offline Tyrantmizar

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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2005, 01:27:32 AM »
Quote
Quote
Cheap, made-in-two-seconds knockoffs. Not to be terribly condescending to the other password hashing extensions (too late), but none of them really rival PasswordMaker. What they do have is a space on the ever expanding Privacy and Security category of Mozilla update. They confuse Firefox users, and they don't have a clear-cut comparison of the various password-hashing extensions out there.
.
Agreed. Not sure what to do about that except keep on promoting PasswordMaker everywhere we can...

We could make a table taking several passwordhashers (and maybe a 'standard' password manager) and compare them feature by feature with PasswordMaker.  hmm...

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Quote
Currently PM appeals to security nuts and computer geeks. We need to get the average Firefox/Mozilla user into the picture. Someone who has no clue that "password" does not make a good password, or that saving it to your computer using password managers isn't as secure as it could be, is not going to understand what PM is about.
I know. I know! But how? Making it simpler will help. Making the web site easier to understand will help. But I need help with that. You see what I've created and I don't know how to make it simpler. HELP ME!!!

Quote
Cruddy explanation on Moz Update. lets face it. It isn't Shakespeare. Especially on the  actual page it is one big blob of text. Yes, I know that isn't your fault. It still sucks.
Once again, I could use your help here. How should it read? How should I fix it (besides the formatting issues). I could give you access to the account if you would like to play with it yourself.
Don't ask me!  I am horrible at explaining anything.  The best way, IMHO, to approach this is by conference, i.e. Eric, quixin, Romeo, tanstaafl, me, etc. all trying to make it easier to understand.    

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... but would like to make clear that it is the *feature-set* of PM that is the only reason I - and the others I have turned on to it - *choose* it. PM just rocks, and is just gonna rock harder as time goes on. I do think Eric will find ways of making the 'Advanced' settings more intuitive as time goes on, but I'm fine with the way they are now for the most part, and certainly do *not* want to see PM 'dumbed down'.
I understand, believe me.  I was not suggesting that it be 'dumbed down,' merely that it would gain a better ease-of-use.

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By the way, I think having an IE extension will also attract a lot more people. I'm working on it now.
Excellent. :)
Tyrantmizar
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Offline tanstaafl

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Mozilla Update
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2005, 03:09:05 AM »
Hi Eric,

Even though most of my Feature Requests tend to be fairly long-winded, I am actually capable of being succinct when I want to be.

If no one else beats me to it, I'll take a stab at re-writing the text on the home page (that you could also use for the description on the extensions sites) and post something this weekend to get us started working it out...

Personally, I think the first page should just be a short/sweet summary, with a 'click here for details' link to a second page for the nitty gritty...

Offline tanstaafl

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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2005, 03:10:23 AM »
By the way, I agree totally on the IE extension, and I'm curious... how far away would you say it is? Are we talking weeks or months?

Also, I'd be willing to be a reviewer for PM if Tyrant hasn't taken you up on that yet. I'm happy to help in any way I can, but purely for selfish reasons - the less you have to worry about things like this, the more time you can spend on PM itself... ;)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2005, 03:18:05 AM by tanstaafl »

Offline Eric H. Jung

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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2005, 07:16:57 PM »
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If no one else beats me to it, I'll take a stab at re-writing the text on the home page (that you could also use for the description on the extensions sites) and post something this weekend to get us started working it out...
No one else has expressed interest yet on this thread, so go for it!

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By the way, I agree totally on the IE extension, and I'm curious... how far away would you say it is? Are we talking weeks or months?
A first release is about 1-2 weeks away, depending on how much free time I find. If I didn't have a full-time job, it would be days away.

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Also, I'd be willing to be a reviewer for PM if Tyrant hasn't taken you up on that yet. I'm happy to help in any way I can, but purely for selfish reasons - the less you have to worry about things like this, the more time you can spend on PM itself...
Excellent. You should read this and also this (from the top of addons.mozilla.org):
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Want to get involved?
We are looking for volunteers to help us with UMO. We are in need of PHP developers to help with redesigning the site, and people to review extensions and themes that get submitted to UMO. We especially need Mac and Thunderbird users. If you are interested in being a part of this exciting project, please send information such as your full name, timezone and experience to [email protected]. Also, please join us in #umo on irc.mozilla.org to start getting a feeling for what's up or for a more informal chat.

edit:
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We could make a table taking several passwordhashers (and maybe a 'standard' password manager) and compare them feature by feature with PasswordMaker. hmm...
Tyrant, great idea. This comparison should go on the main passwordmaker.org site, not the forums. Would you care to take this on? I can suggest which products to compare...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2005, 07:19:01 PM by Eric H. Jung »

Offline Tyrantmizar

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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2005, 07:25:20 PM »
Quote
Quote
We could make a table taking several passwordhashers (and maybe a 'standard' password manager) and compare them feature by feature with PasswordMaker. hmm...
Tyrant, great idea. This comparison should go on the main passwordmaker.org site, not the forums. Would you care to take this on? I can suggest which products to compare...
I've already started working on it.  I'm creating a table in Excel, would you like it in a different format?  Yes, I know you've got to convert it to html in order to put it on the website.

I'm currently comparing:Magic Password Generator, Password Composer, PasswordMaker, PwdHash, and a general password manager-probably Firefox.  If you have any more suggestions, let me know!
Tyrantmizar
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Mozilla Update
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2005, 07:25:20 PM »

 

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